Ecclesiasticus 8

Do not fight with a powerful man, or you may fall into his hands.

1Strive not with a mighty man’ lest thou fall into his hands.

NoteThis chapter is a string of short maxims, nearly all in the form "do not...", of the kind a teacher set before young men learning how to conduct themselves in public life. "A mighty man" is not a physically strong man but one with power, wealth and connections, and "fall into his hands" means to end up entirely at his mercy, with no one willing to step in on your behalf.

2Do not quarrel with a rich man, or he may outweigh you. Gold has ruined many people and has twisted the hearts of kings.

2Be not at variance with a rich man, lest he overweigh thee: for gold hath destroyed many, and perverted the hearts of kings.

NoteThe Greek verb behind "overweigh thee" comes from the weighing scales. Since silver and gold were paid out by weight rather than counted as coins, the image is of a rich man's money tipping the balance against you, and so of his simply outweighing and overpowering you in any contest.

3Do not argue with a man who talks and talks, and do not pile more wood on his fire.

3Strive not with a man that is full of tongue, and heap not wood upon his fire.

Note"Full of tongue" is a literal rendering of a Greek word for a loud, endlessly talking man. Heaping wood on a fire was a standing proverb for feeding a quarrel that would otherwise burn out on its own.

4Do not trade jokes with a coarse, ill-mannered man, or your ancestors will be shamed.

4Jest not with a rude man, lest thy ancestors be disgraced.

NoteIn 1611 "rude" meant unpolished, uneducated, coarse in manners, not merely impolite. The point about ancestors is that trading jokes with such a man ends with him insulting your family, and in this culture a family's honor included its dead, so an insult that reached your forebears was the deepest wound available.

5Do not shame a man who is turning away from sin. Remember that every one of us deserves punishment.

5Reproach not a man that turneth from sin, but remember that we are all worthy of punishment.

Note"Reproach" here means to publicly throw a man's past back in his face. The warning is against shaming someone who is in the act of leaving that past behind.

6Do not treat a man with contempt when he is old, for some of us are growing old too.

6Dishonour not a man in his old age: for even some of us wax old.

7Do not celebrate when your worst enemy is dead. Remember that all of us die.

7Rejoice not over thy greatest enemy being dead, but remember that we die all.

NoteThe Greek text of this book survives in a shorter and a longer form. The longer form, which the King James follows, reads "thy greatest enemy being dead"; the shorter reads simply that you should not rejoice over anyone who has died. The saying is close kin to Proverbs 24:17.

8Do not look down on the talk of the wise. Get to know their sayings, for from them you will learn how to live well, and how to serve important people easily.

8Despise not the discourse of the wise, but acquaint thyself with their proverbs: for of them thou shalt learn instruction, and how to serve great men with ease.

Note"The discourse of the wise" means the teaching of the sages, handed on as collections of proverbs to be memorized. The last phrase shows who this book was written for: young men being trained as scribes and officials, who would spend their working lives attending on powerful patrons, and for whom being at ease in the presence of great men was a practical job skill.

9Do not let the talk of the old people pass you by, for they learned from their own fathers. From them you will gain understanding, and learn how to answer when an answer is needed.

9Miss not the discourse of the elders: for they also learned of their fathers, and of them thou shalt learn understanding, and to give answer as need requireth.

NoteThe "elders" are the older men of the community, whose authority rested on age and on what they had received from their own fathers; instruction passed orally down the generations. "To give answer as need requireth" means knowing the right thing to say at the moment it is called for, a prized ability for someone who might at any time be questioned by a superior.

10Do not stir up the coals of a sinner, or you may be burned by the flame of his fire.

10Kindle not the coals of a sinner, lest thou be burnt with the flame of his fire.

11Do not rise up in anger in front of a man who does harm, or he may lie in wait to trap you by what you say.

11Rise not up in anger at the presence of an injurious person, lest he lie in wait to entrap thee in thy words

NoteThe Greek here can be read two ways: either "do not get up and walk out from the presence of an insolent man" or "do not rise up in anger against him." The King James took the second; the sense of the first would be that storming off gives offense. The last phrase is literally "lie in ambush for your mouth," picturing your own hasty words stored up and later quoted against you.

12Do not lend to a man who is stronger than you are. If you do lend to him, treat the money as gone.

12Lend not unto him that is mightier than thyself; for if thou lendest him, count it but lost.

NoteA debt owed by a more powerful man was in practice unenforceable. Pressing him for repayment meant going before judges who shared his standing, so the loan is written off in advance as the price of not making an enemy.

13Do not promise to cover another person's debt beyond what you can pay. If you do make such a promise, be ready to pay it.

13Be not surety above thy power: for if thou be surety, take care to pay it.

NoteTo be "surety" is to guarantee someone else's debt, promising the lender that you will pay if the borrower does not. In this world a guarantor who could not pay could lose his goods, his land, and in the harshest cases his freedom or his children's, which is why the advice is to assume from the start that you will be the one paying.

14Do not take a judge to court, for the ruling will go his way because of the honor he holds.

14Go not to law with a judge; for they will judge for him according to his honour.

Note"Honour" here means public standing in the community rather than personal integrity. Judges were drawn from the circle of leading men, and a case against one of their number would be heard by his peers, who would rule in favor of the rank he held.

15Do not travel the road with a reckless man, or he will become a burden to you. He will do whatever he wants, and his foolishness will destroy you along with him.

15Travel not by the way with a bold fellow, lest he become grievous unto thee: for he will do according to his own will, and thou shalt perish with him through his folly.

NoteThe Greek word behind "bold fellow" means reckless or headstrong rather than brave. Roads in this period ran for days through open country with bandits and no protection, so a traveling party had to act as one body; a companion who did as he pleased put everyone with him in danger.

16Do not fight with an angry man, and do not go with him into a lonely place. Blood counts for nothing to him, and where there is no one to help, he will strike you down.

16Strive not with an angry man, and go not with him into a solitary place: for blood is as nothing in his sight, and where there is no help, he will overthrow thee.

Note"A solitary place" translates a Greek word for wilderness, the empty country away from towns and villages. The point is not loneliness but the absence of witnesses and of anyone to call to for help. "Blood is as nothing in his sight" means that killing costs him nothing.

17Do not ask a fool for advice, for he cannot keep a matter to himself.

17Consult not with a fool; for he cannot keep counsel.

Note"Keep counsel" in 1611 English means keep a confidence. The objection to the fool is not that his advice is poor but that he cannot hold his tongue about having been asked.

18Do not do anything private in front of a stranger, for you do not know what he may bring out of it.

18Do no secret thing before a stranger; for thou knowest not what he will bring forth.

Note"What he will bring forth" is deliberately open: you do not know what the stranger will produce out of what he has seen, whether he will simply repeat it or make some use of it against you.

19Do not open your heart to just anyone, or he may pay you back with harm.

19Open not thine heart to every man, lest he requite thee with a shrewd turn.

NoteIn 1611 "shrewd" meant malicious or harmful, close to our "shrewish"; a "shrewd turn" was a bad turn, an injury done to you, and had nothing to do with cleverness. The Greek of the second half is unsettled: some manuscripts give the sense the King James takes, while others read something closer to "and do not let him return you a favor," that is, do not put yourself in his debt.